Marty Warner, Independence, Oregon Abuses Wife, Children & female co-workers
AFFIDAVITS, LETTERS & FIRST HAND ACCOUNTS 1976-2020
Photo was titled "Family of the Year" - 2013 - Independence, OR
Coral Anika Theill's eight children with their father,
Marty Warner (my abusive ex-husband)
From L to R
Mr. Marty Warner's Enablers
Affidavits, Letters & First hand witness accounts on behalf of Coral Anika Theill 1976-2020
Several close and long term friends wrote affidavits and were supportive witnesses for me in Court.
Mrs. Therese Vasquez, Corvallis, Oregon, godmother to my twin daughters, Sarah and Rachel, wrote an affidavit signed and notarized February 13, 1996. This affidavit was also presented to the Court.
“I, Therese Vasquez, being first duly deposed swear that the foregoing affidavit is true and accurate.
“I have been acquainted with Marty and Kathy (Coral Theill) since approximately 1979. Over the period of our relationship I have witnessed many instances of inappropriate/abusive behavior.
“Mr. Warner has treated Mrs. Warner with gross disregard, regularly through the course of our acquaintance. Upon the birth of their twin daughters in 1979, Mr. Warner abandoned his wife and children immediately after the birth. Mr. Warner displayed no interest in the delivery of care to the newborns or Mrs. Warner in her early post-partum state.
“Circumstances such as these occurred throughout the duration of our relationship, despite appeals by friends and other acquaintances to Mr. Warner.
“Mr. Warner regularly has degraded Mrs. Warner and the Warner children openly and without restraint. I believe the long-term abuse has been detrimental to the well-being of Mrs. Warner and the Warner children.
“Through the course of the relationship, Mrs. Warner complained regularly of psychological and sexual abuse on an extremely regular basis. On numerous occasions, my husband, Richard Vasquez made appeals to Mr. Warner asking that Mr. Warner consider how harmful his behavior was to Mrs. Warner and children.
“Mr. Warner has on numerous occasions replied to my husband that my husband must be mentally ill to suggest that treating Mrs. Warner in an abusive manner was somehow inappropriate.
“Mr. Warner has routinely objected and prevented Mrs. Warner from accessing medical attention in times of dire need with no regard for Mrs. Warner’s health and well-being. I observed such denials of reasonable medical attention on not less than five occasions.
“Mr. Warner’s extreme religious orientations have been imposed upon Mrs. Warner throughout their marriage. Mr. Warner makes no secret of his demands for female submission at all times, and on occasion would threaten to terminate relationships with friends and acquaintances if the male in friends’ households did not subscribe to his religious beliefs to include, but not limited to female submission—socially, physically, psychologically and sexually.
“Mrs. Warner despite all the abuses continually attempted to meet the requirements of her husband. Mrs. Warner has displayed optimal parental skills, consistently throughout their marriage.
“Mrs. Warner suffered a breakdown (1993-1994) after many years of abuse and unwanted extreme religious indoctrination. Since that time, Mrs. Warner has persevered and has recovered remarkably. The recovery seemed accelerated when they were separated.
“I pray the Court consider the actual cause and effects in this matter. As it is detrimental to Mrs. Warner and the Warner children to be exposed to any additional abuse by Mr. Warner.”
Karen A. (Lague) Heintz, Corvallis, Oregon, wrote these words in her affidavit signed February 13, 1996 to assist my attorneys in a hearing regarding my need to continue living in hiding with my children. Mr. Warner and his attorney, Mr. Lawrence, were of the opinion that the children and I belonged in the home. After a phone hearing with Judge Norblad, he agreed to allow me to continue living away from the home until the pende lite (temporary custody) hearing at the end of the month.
“I have known Kathy (Coral Theill) and Marty Warner for over twelve years. For eight of these years, prior to their moving to Independence, they were my next door neighbors on Taylor Street in Corvallis. This situation gave me ample opportunity to observe Kathy’s parenting skills, which in my opinion were exemplary. As a mother, and the primary caregiver to the children, (six at that time,) she was loving, calm and extremely responsible. The children were happy and content in her presence. I remember marveling not just at her organizational skills at managing that many children, but at the loving and gentle way she treated each one of them. After the birth of her seventh child, Kathy did experience a postpartum breakdown, but as far as I could observe, she was never a danger to any of her children. She continued to love them and worry about them to the best of her ability considering the circumstances. At present, Kathy seems completely recovered from her postpartum problem. I have had recent opportunities to observe her with her children, and she continues to treat them lovingly and responsibly.
“At this time, I do have real concerns about Kathy (Coral Theill) returning to the residence with Marty. Throughout years of observing Marty as a neighbor, my husband and I both felt that he had a very strong need to control almost every aspect of his wife’s life. He once told me in a backyard conversation that he would never allow Kathy to go to the doctor by herself. While my husband and I felt that it was not our business to pass judgment on how a neighbor conducted a marriage, we were made uncomfortable by the submissiveness Marty demanded from Kathy. While Marty and the older children sometimes took vacations, it often seemed that Kathy never left the house except to buy groceries.
“After the Warner’s moved to Independence, (Oregon), and after Kathy’s post-partum depression had been going on for a while, I encountered Marty at a local Bi Mart Store. (I believe this was sometime during the summer of 1993.) After describing Kathy’s behavior in a very derogatory manner, and complaining about his own high blood pressure, he went on to tell me that Kathy “needed a spanking.” I felt very uncomfortable about his statement, as it indicated to me that he had very little compassion for and/or understanding of the hormonal problem Kathy was facing.
“More recently, I accompanied Kathy to the Benton County Sheriff’s Office on the day the restraining order against Marty was being served. Kathy was obviously terrified about what his response might be. The people at the sheriff’s office front desk would be able to corroborate this, as Kathy told them she was afraid of her husband, and they offered her and baby Zachary sanctuary for the day if they needed it. Furthermore, although Kathy has the support of many people in the community, almost all of them have refused to accompany Kathy back home, or to stay with her in the Warner residence out of concern that Marty might resort to violence. I personally talked to five people who were afraid to go due to the volatility of the situation. Kathy also spoke to me about her very real fear of being made pregnant again by Marty if she returns to the home. Since she was made pregnant twice during the time of her breakdown, it seems to me a very realistic fear on her part. While Kathy is extremely concerned about the safety and welfare of her children who remain in the home, especially the two younger ones, her fear of returning home with the three youngest children to this uncontrolled and possibly dangerous situation seems understandable.”
Debbie Custis, a former co-worker (Hewlett Packard, Corvallis, Oregon) to my ex-husband, Mr. Marty Warner, responds to Coral Theill's son-in-law's disparaging comments.
*Note: Debbie Custis filed an affidavit in my 2003 Polk County Court case. Here is the copy of the affidavit
Letter by Debbie Custis, July 16, 2007
Coral’s son-in-law, wasn’t in the Warner’s life nor was he in court for the proceedings during the time Kathy (Coral) was being abused by Marty and the court system in Oregon. I was. I also worked with and for Mr. Warner. Trust me, he can “just flip on an internal switch” when he feels it’s necessary to appear to be a well-adjusted, upstanding member of the community. Feel fortunate that you’re not a “woman” and that Mr. Warner feels no need to “control” you! *See Affidavit written by Debbie Custis in 2003 describing the abuse she suffrered from Marty Warner in the workplace.
You didn’t see Coral with her three youngest children, her patience, the love and the bond that was so clearly there for all to see while she was in hiding from her husband, living from hotel to hotel, with no money, and no food, entirely dependent on friends and yes, even some strangers that wanted to help her. It’s easy to be kind, loving, and nurturing during the good times; Coral was all those things during the hard times as well.
You weren’t there during the court proceedings. You didn’t listen to the absolute absence of feeling for his wife and her trauma in his answer when the judge asked “why would you continue to have marital relations with your wife in her current physical and mental condition.” I was there. I was also outside the courtroom walking the baby when I couldn’t stand to hear any more of what he said in court.
You weren’t there when the court decided to take Coral’s children away. You didn’t see a woman sobbing, rocking back and forth consumed with the kind of grief that only another parent could understand and yet, not wholly fathom.
You weren’t there when we picked up the three youngest children and delivered them to Mr. Warner. You didn’t hear the screams and sobbing of the two little girls in the back seat of my car on the trip to Mr. Warner’s. You never had to watch a grief-stricken mother trying to pump painfully engorged breasts because her six-month-old nursing baby had just been wrenched from her.
Tell me something, what had Coral ever done to deserve this? Coral Theill was a warm and loving mother. She was also a good wife. To this day she loves her eight children deeply, even the ones who no longer call her mother. Coral was the sole nurturer, caregiver, and teacher in that family for nearly 20 years.
At least half of those wonderful, talented, children you speak of received their foundation from their mom.
It saddens and sickens me that all of the wonderful things the children learned from their mother; all of the warm and happy memories that should be Coral’s legacy to these children have been tossed away like yesterday’s garbage.
That, sir, is the real tragedy.—Debbie Custis, Salem, Oregon
April 20, 2015, Personal comment by Debbie Custis: " This truly happened to this beautiful, wonderful woman and mother. I can never fully explain to all of you how horrendous this was. Not only did I try to help Coral, her husband was my supervisor at the time and I was battling my own personal hell with Marty Warner in the work place. He was a disgusting, sexist man, who had no business supervising women in any capacity. He tried/did talk to me "privately" about Coral (captive audience) and my heart ached for her. I didn't even know her at the time and I was sickened for her. I only had to deal with him at work, she had to live with him in her own personal prison!!
"It's hard for me to revisit in my mind and memories working for him [Marty Warner] . I was stressed, anxious, and depressed all the time. I don't know how Coral has survived his lies, abuse, sick ideologies, losing her children (yes, I delivered the girls into his hands when she lost her court case, and still remember the screaming and crying coming from my back seat when they were pulled away from their mother). I salute you Coral, want nothing but happiness for you, and grew to love you very much. Please Father God, bless this woman!"
Letters And Documentation: This is a signed letter filed in court in 1996 and with custody evaluators - a witness - Debbie Dresler was a friend from 1976-1997 - she witnessed my life when I was in the PEOPLE OF PRAISE COMMUNITY as she stated in this letter to the COURT AND TO THE CUSTODY EVALUATORS IN 1996.
DEBBIE DRESLER'S letter is PUBLISHED IN MY MEMOIR BONSHEA Making Light of the Dark
March 29, 1996 (Written by Debbie Dresler to custody evaluator Dr. Jean Furchner. Communication by letter also made to custody evaluator Patricia Cox)
Dear Dr. Furchner, I contacted both you and Patricia Cox (after my brief visit with Kathy Warner at her home on her first weekend of visitation) because of concerns I had about the children, particularly the hostility expressed by the older children, the aggressive outburst towards my six year old daughter by Theresa, and the overall level of tension in that home. Both of you sought information about my relationship with Kathy and Marty and how long I had known the family, how well I knew the children and other background information.
I wanted to be very careful to tell you what I saw directly on the weekend and not to give information about any of the family that I had not seen or heard myself, other than general history of my relationship with them. The sadness of this situation continues to haunt me. I feel ready now to share more of what I know of Kathy and Marty’s relationship because the unusual nature of their relationship makes this such a tragedy for the children. Marty Warner is a man of intense religious zeal. He has lived his marriage by certain scriptural principles (actually isolated verses from the Bible) that he would freely share with you as he has with me and all of their friends. He believes that these are the irrefutable principles that govern the marriage of a righteous Christian man and woman. “Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be subject to their husbands in all things.” Ephesians 5:22-24 “But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman . . .” I Corinthians 11:3 “For a man does not originate from woman, but woman from man, for indeed man was not created for woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake.” I Corinthians 11:8-9 “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that he might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she should be holy and blameless.” Eph. 5:25-27
Marty took these principles and interpreted them to mean that any disagreement with his wishes or beliefs was ungodly rebellion against himself and God. He interpreted them to mean that Kathy needed constant correcting and punishing to make her pure before God and that he was the husband that God had given her in order to make her “spot free”. He established a practice of “headship” in their home. This is something that bears asking Kathy about because it has had such an impact on the relationships in that family and the sickness of those relationships. It began when they got involved in a charismatic Catholic community.
The men were honored as the “heads” in their homes and the wives were expected to demonstrate their submission or they had to go through a process of confessing and restoration. When Marty was out of town on business, he would assign another man from the “community” to step in as his “head” and monitor Kathy while he was gone. I can only believe she was totally brainwashed to put up with this. The man would come over to see if she was doing her chores and following her schedules. I can’t remember how many years they were involved in this, but it was eerie and I only visited her perhaps 4 or 5 times while they were in this group. She finally dug her heels in and refused to be a part of this anymore.
She can tell you about all that. He eventually left that group when she absolutely refused to be a part of it anymore and after some church shopping, I heard from her that Marty had decided they would become their own little church. I don’t know how many years that went on, but he persisted in the “headship” practices at home, often accompanied by family Bible study and “encouraging each other’s growth” which was often a thinly veiled reason to find more and more ways that Kathy needed to improve. As the older girls got to be around 10 years old, they were enlisted in the process of helping Kathy to meet her responsibilities as a godly woman should. He would ask them whether she had taken a nap (how, with 5 children?), had she raised her voice, had she been available for all their needs, etc.) They also became involved in the homeschooling movement and very enthusiastic about it, but it resulted in constant demands on her time and constant supervision and reporting to Marty. Kathy had a very warm and gentle style with the children.
I last saw the twins with her when they were about 11 or 12, and they had an affectionate bond. Other friends told me that as the twins hit their teen years, they became demanding and critical of her in much the same way as Marty was. She had her hands full with 6 children by then. Other friends know far more about the relationship with the older children and saw them a lot more in these years. The tone in their household when Marty was home was tense. She was quiet and acquiescent and he tended to have a lot of little “needs”, this or that for her to find for him. She always responded quickly, as if these little inconveniences he experienced were a top priority. I saw her fairly regularly after she left the Catholic Church and things were very tense in their home then. I visited her a number of times when they were involved in the closed charismatic community that had all sorts of “umbrellas of authority”. During this time she looked pretty shell-shocked and I described my visits with her to my husband as visiting one of the “Stepford Wives” (an old TV movie about wives, who were replaced by submissive robots by their husbands). The children were well controlled and angelic, but it was difficult to relate to Kathy.
She was very tense and didn’t talk freely. She told me years later about the months of trauma she endured when she refused to participate in “Community” anymore. I saw Kathy after the birth of Joshua and then just heard from her by letter after Rebecca. I had children of my own during that time and the distance and number of obligations I had in Portland with two small children kept me close to home. I visited her when my youngest was two and my older daughter was five. Marty was home and made a point of disparaging women who work as ungodly (I worked 20 hours/week as a physical therapist and Kathy had been asking me about my work and how I handled it). He has very strong beliefs that children need to be in the home with their mother and has shared these opinions freely and frequently with the women he works with and women of Kathy’s circle of friends who work. It is dramatically different than the stand he currently takes with the care of the children. I next heard from Kathy by phone in 1993 or 1994. She sounded very depressed and wanted me to return a book that she said she had sent to her women friends at Marty’s request. She said it had grieved her and that she’d like me to send it back.
She talked about her feelings of hopelessness and wanting to die to get away from the pain. I was very alarmed and called Marty at work the next day to find out what he was doing to address her depression. He said he had found a counselor after looking for a long time for one who agreed with his frame of reference. He said he didn’t believe in secular counseling or psychology and that he had sought someone who agreed with him. I asked him what he thought Kathy’s problem was and he said that she was “shirking her responsibilities”. Kathy called again about a month later and asked me to come visit her. I went. She was obviously not well emotionally and it was difficult to reach her conversationally.
Marty was at first congenial when I came to the house, but became tenser and angry with her as the day progressed. I had come without the children and she had only Theresa and Joshua at home. Marty had split the family up and sent the other children to relatives temporarily. At that time, Kathy mentioned several times that the older children had become increasingly abusive with her, to the point of some physical abuse. She told me that Marty had said it was up to her to “earn” their respect. This seemed like a real loser of a suggestion from the man who set them up to report on her shortcomings as part of his “headship” in the home. There was an incident with a dog fight that day that Marty attempted to break up and was bitten in the process. I heard an animal scream and when Joshua came in, we asked what happened and he said “Dad hit the dog with a board because he got bit”.
I left awhile later, feeling like I had never connected with Kathy and sure that she wouldn’t get appropriate help with Marty in control. She said he had taken her to see someone in Roseburg or Springfield and that she didn’t like him. I got a call from Kathy last December and was surprised to learn she had had another baby and equally surprised at how good she sounded. She called to tell me she was seeking a separation, that she knew she needed to be away from Marty and that he needed to be away from her to stop the abuse he perpetrated against her. She said she preferred not to talk about it, but it was a lot of mental torment. She also said the older girls were visiting their aunt for about a month and that since she had to initiate this without his knowledge (he would never permit it), she had taken the opportunity of their absence to seek an attorney. I talked to her frequently over the next month and then took her and the three youngest children in for a few nights when she came to Portland to meet Mr. Gearing. The restraining order had been lifted, Marty was very angry and back in the home and she was very distraught. Things were chaotic, over the next few weeks with the depositions, the attorney visits, getting Rebecca into counseling, and getting her psychiatric evaluations done in preparation for the hearings. Kathy was certain that Marty’s big thrust would be her mental health and was pleased when Dr. Kuttner was able to validate how well she was doing. The little children were unsettled, as was Kathy, but this improved once she got through the depositions and was loaned a home by friends who were out of town. I saw her three or four times during those three weeks and took care of the children on several occasions.
During this whole time, Kathy would only allow people she personally knew and trusted to take care of the children. Their well-being was a primary concern to her even though it meant a lot of time on the phone before every appointment to line up trusted help. I sat through the first day of the custody hearings and then was shocked to learn the next week that she had temporarily lost all of the children, including the baby. At the break in the hearing, the twin girls turned their backs on her whenever she was out in the hall. “Shunning” was practiced by the “Community” that Marty had the family involved in when the girls were younger. (Kathy was officially “shunned” by that group for about 6 months until she refused to go sit in the hall during meetings any longer, but many of those people still engage in the practice of officially “shunning” her.) I went to Kathy at the attorney’s office on the day she was given the decision regarding the children and I can’t begin to describe the grief of that day. We were all crying. I wondered how she would make it through the next few weeks—her last week before giving up the children and then giving them up. She knows Marty’s belief system and what he feels “called” to do to her, just as he knows her weaknesses and the things that she is passionate about. According to his world view, Kathy is a harlot and home wrecker. She is selfish beyond belief to seek anything other than serving him and the children. She is outside her God-appointed “umbrella of authority” and she needs to be punished and brought back into submission. He called her brother during the course of the depositions and said he and his attorney would “have her broken” before the week was over. (Therese Vasquez knows these people) that he is punishing her and that he is “holding the children as hostages” to get her back in the home.
He has told co-workers at Hewlett-Packard that he is “going to destroy her” and that she “deserves to be punished”. Kathy loves her children deeply and wants nothing more than to be their mother. Marty knows this and this is how he will punish her. Power over his wife has been the basis of his marriage with her. Now the courts have affirmed this power and he sees the hand of God in this. The tragedy of this divorce is that he will never allow her to have a healthy relationship with the children. He has custody now and can present the divorce and her absence as he sees fit. This is a family that uses the language of religion and the fear of God as motivation as a matter of course in their conversations. Mommy is evil and disobeying God by leaving the family. Mommy would rather work than be at home with them (the meaning of that in this household is clear). 310
The other belief that Marty clings to is that Kathy must be mentally ill or she would never leave him and the family. He has been heard to share this with the children. How are the children supposed to relate to Kathy in this context? No one has ever shaken Marty from any of his beliefs. Men that he has had friendly relationships with over the years have tried to talk to him about the extreme beliefs he holds and the effect they have had on Kathy and the children, but he cannot be budged. I think that Marty is aware at some level that he had a lot to do with Kathy’s breakdown several years ago because he persists in bragging to people that he can “break” her again. I was with Kathy at the attorney’s office for a good part of her depositions because I was taking care of the baby, so I heard a lot about what was being asked of her by Mr. Lawrence and a lot of the questions seemed to be asked directly to humiliate her and hurt her. When I stopped by the home briefly on Sunday the 24th of March, I was again overwhelmed by the daunting task she has of trying to hang onto some kind of relationship with her children. She knows that he has absolute power in that home.
The twin girls were standing in the kitchen, arms folded across their chests, glaring at us all. Parts of the house were locked off. The phones were all locked away. (I had come to the house because I couldn’t reach her by phone and she had asked me to contact her). My girls had played with Theresa and Joshua and were getting along beautifully, until Theresa’s angry outburst and lashing out at my little one. It was a strange and awful atmosphere that day. I don’t think that Marty has any idea what kind of damage the children experience as he sets out to punish her through them. I know children will feel anger towards the parent who initiates a divorce but she is not in a position to affirm her love for them and show them and tell them that she loves them dearly. It would be all but impossible for the little ones to understand a mother who is there for 2 days then disappears for two weeks again. This has got to be very frightening to them since she has been the primary caregiver in their lives. Marty has told the court that he loves Kathy and they welcome her back in the home with flowers and open arms. He tells others he will destroy her. As Kathy held her eight year old son in her lap as I was leaving on the Saturday of her visitation, the ten year old girl stood across the room and glared at him. I had the impression that a campaign is already going on in that home to turn the children against her. If the children remain in Marty’s custody, they will eventually have nothing to do with her.
He is very intense and determined in his beliefs. I think that Marty would be unable to come up with a plan for how he will share custody of the children with her in a way that allows both of them to love and raise the children. If he is to be the parent in charge of their upbringing, it would be a revelation to see if he could demonstrate the ability to help the children adjust to this difficult situation with a healthy attitude towards their mother. Kathy’s deficiency as a parent errs on the side of perhaps too much gentleness and too many kids to manage simultaneously in a hou, that the hostility towards herin that homesehold where disrespect towards her was the norm modeled by her husband. As she has gotten away from Marty, I have seen her grow stronger, more self-assured and more collected in her thoughts. Going back into the home for visitation was an incredible challenge for her, but she made it through, stood her ground with the twins and will have had this emotionally wrenching first visit behind her. She knows, however, that the hostility towards her in that home is bound to grow as a final hearing date approaches.
It seems there are better alternatives to visiting all seven of the eight children at the home at the same time, especially since the twins drive and have their own car, and since their issues with Kathy are much more grown up than the younger children. The younger children could have a much more nurturing visit with Kathy without the hostility of the twins to inhibit that bond. I have gone far too long with this letter to you. I fear I overstep in suggesting that the courts’ plan is not in the best interest of the children. I got to know the little children very well while Kathy was in Portland. I saw their confusion and their hurt and it tears me up to see that now they have lost her love and comfort. I am amazed that at this point she is actually going out for job interviews and moving ahead with her life. I don’t know too many women who could lose so much and still do that. She tells me that there is a certain place of calm in having nothing else left to lose. She tries to look at her situation from various vantages to see it in a way that preserves her sanity. After the attorneys presented the judgment to her, one took me aside and said, “You and the other friends need to watch over her—women jump off bridges over decisions like these”. As friends, some of the other women and I may be hyper vigilant about how she is doing, but at this point we feel we are all she has and that is a pretty scary place to be. I appreciate you taking the time to wade through my reminiscing and opinions. Sincerely, Debbie Dresler, Portland, Oregon
Affidavit from Debbie Custis - 2003 - She was abused by Mr. Marty Warner - my ex husband at Hewlett Packard, Corvallis, Oregon - filed in court and published in BONSHEA Making Light of the Dark
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE STATE OF OREGON FOR THE COUNTY OF POLK Kathryn Y. Warner, Case No. 95P-20639
I, Debbie J. Custis, being first duly sworn, depose and say that:
The eighteen months that I worked with and for Mr. Marty Warner were the most distressing years mentally and emotionally I've ever experienced in the workplace or plan to ever experience again.
I was not personally acquainted with Kathy Warner (aka, Coral Theill) until the latter part of 1995 or the beginning of 1996, although I thought about her and wondered what kind of life she had, because, I felt in my heart if Marty could say and do the things he did to me in the workplace and get away with it, life for Kathy Warner had to be terrible. As time went on, Mr. Warner would single me out to talk about Mrs. Warner and it was not a comfortable situation. Marty made it well known to at the very least, his staff, that (in his words) his wife was having severe mental and emotional problems. I was told Kathy had suffered a miscarriage, needed to have a D &C she felt responsible for the miscarriage because of her severe emotional distress. A very short time later, our group and others were shocked when Marty told us Kathy was expecting another child.
Over the course of a few months, Marty told me he felt Kathy wasn't being obedient to God and needed to pray more. She also needed to listen to the members of the church who were trying to minister to her. He told our group when he felt forced to put his wife in a hospital somewhere and she'd run away. I felt sick inside every time he tried to talk to me because of the instances I've described below. By this time, I was suffering emotionally and mentally from just working with him daily and it made me so sad to think of her anguish.
I was employed at Hewlett Packard from September 1991 to June 2003. I spent my first nineteen months with them working as a Flex-Force (temporary) employee as an Ultra Pure Water/Waste-Treatment technician. Marty Warner became our Supervisor during the last couple of months I was Flex-Force employee.
In April 1993, two full-time Ultra-Pure Water jobs became available. I was offered one position and the other went to someone outside the Hewlett Packard employee pool. The gentleman who was hired had no prior Ultra-Pure Water experience. A couple of days before our new employee arrived, Mr. Warner came to me and I was told, I would be training the new employee. He also informed that he was starting us at the same rate of pay. At that time, I told Mr. Warner I felt that was unfair as I had an Associate degree in the Water/Wastewater field, was State Certified and that I had already worked in the same capacity as the existing HP Technicians at a much lower rate of pay for the past nineteen months. Mr. Warner replied: "Unfortunately, some people feel they have more value to HP than they actually do". That day was the real beginning of eighteen months working for and with a man who undermined my decisions and harassed me based on his gender bias.
I didn't start documenting issues and conversations with Mr. Warner until September1993. Several co-workers and my husband had advised me to document what was happening but at that time I was still hoping Mr. Warner would accept me based on my job performance and not my gender. Unfortunately, that never happened.
In September, Mr. Warner and I met to discuss the pay level change for DI water technicians. Mr. Warner wanted to meet outside at one of the picnic tables. Marty asked me if I had any questions or issues and I said, "Yes," I'd like to know why he addressed the majority of questions and comments in Staff and Project meetings to Rich and Tom (we as a group, had noticed this for quite sometime). I also asked Mr. Warner if he was having a problem with me as a female employee. Mr. Warner's response was: If you and Leonard (he didn't know my husband personally) were to come to me and tell me you had decided to stay home and take care of your family, I'd be overjoyed. I asked Mr. Warner if he had problems with my work and he replied "No, I was doing a good job, we all were."
Marty began talking about some of the problems he was having at home. I mentioned having some problems with my son, and Mr. Warner replied: "If we don't do what the Lord wants us to do, we bear bad fruit and that your children need you in the home." When I stated that I didn't feel I was being punished because I'd had to work as a single parent part of my children's life and that we were not all fortunate enough to be able to stay home during a child's childhood. Mr. Warner went on to say: "He felt men and women, working closely together weren't always a good thing as it could lead to problems if things weren't going well at home. He said, "You might start taking someone a cup of coffee and then he brings you one" (I'm not sure where he was going with this comment, and as it turned out, Marty Warner was the only man who would ask me to bring him coffee over the next year. I felt this was inappropriate and demeaning) I told Mr. Warner my relationship with my peers and the other guys at HP was a brother/sister friendship, my husband and I had only been married two years and we were very happy.
9/24/03 - I responded to a call for an acid overflow and had to advise some of our fabs to halt the dumping of acid immediately. I also called Mr. Warner to advise him of the situation. Marty wasn't available and I left a voice mail message. Two hours later, Mr. Warner came down and kept asking me, "Do you understand the process Debbie? Do you understand Metering pumps Debbie? Do you understand valves Debbie? I kept telling him yes, I understood, we'd done this several times before. A few minutes later he said, I shouldn't have shut down production, it wasn't necessary. Rich Millimaki, our senior technician, had handled this same problem the week before in exactly the same manner and Mr. Warner hadn't questioned his decision in any way.
There are many instances documented of Mr. Warner undermining my decisions and excluding me in conversations that directly related to systems I was in charge of and of Mr. Warner asking my two male peers for opinions and information on systems or assignments that were mine and they knew nothing about. These items may still be documented with the Polk County Court from Mrs. Warner's 1996 hearing. If not, I still have the original documentation.
At a staff meeting, Mr. Warner told our Senior Technician to start documenting daily routines and all the work we did and the time that was spent doing it. Rich asked if we were going to hire a fourth person Mr. Warner replied: "You never know, Debbie may quit.
At another staff meeting, drug testing for new employees was one of our agenda topics. Tom Sibert asked what they tested for, Marty said; "I don't know, and when I told Tom they test for cocaine, etc. Mr. Warner replied. "Yes, Debbie knows all about it."
January 1994. Mr. Warner asked me to meet him in the cafeteria to go over my position plan for the coming year. At that meeting Marty told me he realized he was giving me a year and a half's worth of work to be completed in a year but to do the best I could (Failure to meet the objectives in a position plan directly affect your ranking and pay on your evaluations). Mr. Warner said, He realized I was overwhelmed with projects and work, but when I commented I would need to work until 8:00 p.m. every night and on the weekends to get caught up as it was and that he wouldn't approve overtime, Mr. Warner told me if I wanted to excel at my job, I'd do whatever it took, I wasn't in Junior High or High School anymore where being a "B" student was acceptable. I was at College Level now and being a "B" student wasn't acceptable or enough to excel. Mr. Warner told me if I wanted to excel, I would do whatever it took to get there. I also asked Marty how he could justify my being away from my family for such extended periods of time when he told me that his being away from his family for so many years had caused numerous problems for himself, he just went back to the if you want to excel, you'll do whatever it takes.
I did work the overtime without pay and when someone (I believe, it was my previous supervisor) went to personnel regarding all of the problems I was having with Marty and they realized I'd been working the overtime as an hourly employee without being paid, they asked me to figure out what I was owed. Marty came to me and said, "I need to know how many hours it is you feel we owe you." He was angry and wanted to know what I'd discussed with personnel and why I had betrayed him. Even though I told Marty that personnel said, "I didn't have to meet privately with him again," he didn't stop cornering me when he got a chance. Following are a few additional comments Mr. Warner felt he needed to make.
That I should pray and ask the Lord where I would be happiest, back in a municipality (I was working in one when I came to HP) or at home.
That he didn't know if something was going on with me or I was just going through something that day (It was very clear he was insinuating I was having a PMS day).
That the feelings of self-doubt and inadequacy I'd began to feel at his treatment were all in my head.
I was being cold to him and he knew I could be warm because I'd shown him warmth.
Marty was eventually replaced as the Ultra-Pure Water Supervisor but he remained the System's Engineer for my south site Water systems and the harassment continued. The constant Turmoil and harassment at Mr. Warner's hand impacted every aspect of my personal and professional life. I began to cry easily and frequently, couldn't sleep, began doubting my decisions and had feelings of inadequacy. In August of 1995, I made the decision to apply for a position in a different department to get away from Mr. Warner and the constant stress. My new supervisor gave me written permission to apply for the job. I applied, was interviewed and was told I had the position. Unfortunately, without my knowledge our Department Manager and my supervisor had informed the hiring manager for my new position they couldn't let me go for six months as there was no one to take my place. When I met with both the manager and my supervisor to discuss the decision they had made, I told them both I'd applied for that job because I needed to get away from Marty and the stress. From that point on, my supervisor kept me as insulated from Marty as he could.
I was contacted by Mrs. Warner in late 1995 or early 1996. Kathy knew of me because of Marty and what he'd told her about me, but she was also informed by a friend that worked for HP that the problems between her husband and I had escalated to Personnel involvement. She asked me if I would be willing to talk to her attorney and I said, "absolutely".
I received a subpoena from Mrs. Warner's attorney to testify on her behalf on February 9, 1996. Unfortunately, her attorney asked just one question that I can remember. He asked, If Mr. Warner was a very controlling person and I replied "Yes."
I was allowed in court after my brief time in the witness stand and was appalled and sickened by the past treatment of Mrs. Warner by Mr. Warner, by the questions that were allowed in court and by the treatment of a woman in such a fragile state of mine. There were times I couldn't stand hearing anymore and would go outside the courtroom and walk with baby Zachary.
The day Kathy was forced to turn her three youngest children over to Mr. Warner because she had lost custody, I was the one who took the two youngest girls (Rebecca and Hannah) to their father. They cried or screamed the entire trip. It was one of the most gut wrenching things I've ever seen. A longtime friend of Kathy's took six month old Zachary in her car. When we arrived at the Warner home, Marty wanted to know what he should feed Zachary as he was a nursing baby.
I've seen Kathy Warner go through pain and suffering at the hands of Marty Warner, and the court system that would drive most people insane. I've seen her lose everything in this world that could possibly matter to her except her hope that justice would eventually come to her aid. I've seen Mrs. Warner pick herself up time and time again in her attempt to right an extreme wrong. I've read the book she's written in an attempt to help other victims of domestic violence and hopefully explain to her children why she is no longer in their lives.
I've sat back and watched and listened as time after time she's been denied justice and human compassion from the very people who say they are advocates for domestic violence.
I don't know how to help Kathy anymore and fear that she can't hang on much longer. I'm submitting this affidavit in the hopes that the legal system will understand what happened to Mrs. Warner is real, is cruel and continues. I know it's real because I lived through eighteen months of emotional and mental turmoil, fear and doubt in my professional abilities at the hands of the same man that brought his wife to a state of emotional and mental breakdown.
Signed and notorized/copy available
(Excerpts of a letter sent to Mr. Marty Warner, Independence, Oregon - Spring 1996)
Dear Marty, This letter is being written after much prayer and thought. Please hear me out. Although I didn’t know you well or very personally when we worked together at CH2M, (1976) I regarded you as a nice young man with your feet on the ground. After meeting Kathy, I thought you and she were a fine, young couple to whom my daughter Deborah (Dresler) could relate as Christian friends. You may ask what business is it of mine to butt into your personal life. Just this. I think you may still regard yourself as a Christian, so as a brother in Christ I am following the exhortation to rebuke you (Luke 17:3). Not only have you destroyed your own life, but that of your family, as well. I am appalled by your non-Christian behavior!
How any man can keep his wife in bondage for some 18-20 years, father eight of her children; expect her to raise them by his rigid, undeviating, pre-planned schedules, home school the oldest five while caring for the youngest three, in addition to her regular household chores; push her to the depth of despair (and almost over the edge)–then cast her aside like a piece of tattered clothing–is beyond my understanding.
To take a nursing baby from his mother’s breast, to turn your children against their mother and put them in charge of her, and to withhold common acts of decency from a wife you have controlled for most of her married life are the acts of a hardened heart, and are not Christlike. Cults are of the devil, Marty. Who is driving your life?
I don’t know where you found those "Christian" lawyers, or how the judge could have ruled as he did. It is neither right nor just. Kathy deserves better. She should not be deprived of the three youngest children. May God grant you wisdom in deciding how you pursue your remaining years. Prayerfully it will be by resolving to abide in Jesus. This is the only way it can be. Sincerely, - Jack Meier, Bend, Oregon
In 1996, Tashi (Smith) Gremar, teacher, Astoria, Oregon, testifies about the abuse she witnessed in the Warner home.
I became extremely uncomfortable working within the home as I witnessed the level of fear both Kathy (Coral Theill) and the children lived with every day.
“I became involved in the Marty Warner/Coral Theill case a few years ago (1995) when I was still studying to be a teacher at Western, and was hired to help tutor the Warner children. I need to share with you that, while working within the home, I immediately noticed how demeaning and controlling Mr. Warner was toward his wife. However, he assured me he was doing everything "for Kathy’s (Coral Theill’s) own good," so I tried to ignore the matter. But as time passed, I was witness to Mr. Warner’s extreme mood swings, angry outbursts, and unrealistic expectations towards his wife.
“It is not my intent to criticize Marty Warner, but I will tell you the bare essentials so you can get a glimpse of the reality in which Ms. Hall and her children had to live. At the time I was hired, Kathy had been working for twenty years as a full-time mother of eight kids, ranging from teenagers to a newborn, as well as a full-time cook, housekeeper, and home-school teacher. Any one of these jobs would have been a heavy load for one person alone to handle, yet Kathy was an amazing mother and teacher who always showed compassion and love to her family.
“While working with Mrs. Warner over the next few months, I found her to be a positive, Godly woman of utmost integrity. I have never met anyone so wise, loving, gentle, hardworking, and giving. As is obvious, I gained a deep respect and admiration for Kathy Warner/Coral Theill, and came to think of her as a dear friend as well as a mentor.
“Kathy (Coral) is a beautiful, fragile treasure. How tragic that such a sweet soul would be oppressed by an enraged husband who only treated her with contempt. If the house, the children, or the meals were not perfect, Marty would become violently angry with Kathy. I became extremely uncomfortable working within the home as I witnessed the level of fear both Kathy and the children lived with every day.
“Although the family scrambled to please Marty, their efforts were never good enough. He was unable to be satisfied, and continued to bark out his commands to his own family. I had to painfully watch Kathy literally beg him for a few dollars she needed for the kids. I saw the children ignored by Mr. Warner until they accidentally did something "wrong" that he did not like. He would violently spank them for the smallest of offenses. I was shocked that someone who seemed so respectable could be so blatantly wicked in his private life.As you may be aware, Kathy finally gathered the courage to take her children and flee her husband. She was considered a kidnapper, and was taken to court.
“When I was asked to testify to Mr. Warner’s controlling and demeaning treatment towards Kathy Warner (Coral Theill) in court, I learned that Marty had been violently abusing Kathy physically, emotionally, and sexually for the last twenty years. She had been continually raped and beaten, often to the point of being hospitalized, by her "Christian" husband. She was kept a prisoner in her own house, being allowed to see others only under Marty’s supervision and approval. Friends of the family only hope he did not take his sexual aggressions out on his daughters in the same way.
“Not believing in divorce, Kathy (Coral) stayed as long as she could, always trying to please Marty, in hopes that he would change. You may choose to believe that such a pillar of the community as Mr. Warner could not possibly be capable of such behavior, but I am a first-hand witness that he is a smooth talker with much to hide in his private life.”
*Please note: Tashi Smith never heard back from Pastor Ron. Her letter was "dismissed."
"Shunning" in the Charismatic Community
My wife and our children were active and devoted members of the "People of Praise" Catholic charismatic community in Corvallis, Oregon, from the time it became a branch of the "People of Praise" ecumenical covenant Christian community in South Bend, Indiana, until we dropped out on May 10, 1983.
From the day that I made that decision, to the present time, I have never been contacted by any member of that community in any way! No one; not the leaders, the Catholic priest who was the head of the group in Corvallis at that time, or any of the people in that group, ever made any attempt to contact me to find out why I had elected to leave! When I dropped out, I told my "head" that I would not come to any more meetings, or be a part of the "People of Praise" and that being a member was bringing more discord into our family life, than harmony.
It seems rather strange that while living in Corvallis all this time (a community of approximately 40,000), that in the last 18 years in general, and the first few months following my leaving the community in particular, that I have never been approached by any of these people in any way - in stores, at work or in our home, to find why I had made that decision!
What is even more mystifying to me is how this so called Christian community, supposedly following the way of Christ, would purposely not seek out the member who had strayed and find out why he had left them! Even the bible tells the story of Christ leaving the flock to seek out the stray sheep!
For some time before I made the decision to leave the group I had begun to question, in my own mind, some of the requirements of the community such as; headship and submission (husband and wife), tithing 10% (gross income) to the community, and their dictating how we raised our children.
Initially I (as I’m certain many males would be), was comfortable with the idea of having a "defined" submissive wife. We both had made the decision to join the community knowing that there would be "headship" throughout the hierarchy of the community. (i.e.) Every husband was "head" of his wife and family, every husband was under the "headship of some other (community appointed) "head". These men, were in turn under some form of male "headship" all the way up the (somehow appointed) chain of command to the Priest, who then was in submission to the leadership of the People of Praise community in South Bend, Indiana.
Giving the tithe of 10% of our gross income was quite a monetary strain on our budget (we had seven children, four of which were teenagers at that time) but since it was for "God’s work" was accepted that. However, after a while, it became questionable to me if God really needed that money more than we did in our single-income family! A good portion of the tithe ultimately went to the leaders in South Bend whose children all were supposedly going to the university!
My wife and I also had to account for the scheduling of our time, day and night seven days a week, which was dominated by the community activities and their scrutiny. Our children became very much aware of how our family life, which previously was acceptably challenging yet harmonious, had become more fractionalized after joining the community.
I finally realized that the "commitment" of time and money that these cults put on their members deceivingly gives them control and power over the misguided members- so, we left. Now in our family, we look back on and sometimes discuss those days in community and are thankful that we are all in agreement on the decision that was made. "Friends" like that are not worth the price, and shunning is not God’s way.
Robert L. Walsh
February 3, 2002
Thank you for your recent mailing regarding Bonshea. I received your prior letters and meant to contact you sooner but, to be honest, I think I wasn’t sure what to say.
Your case definitely "stayed" with me and I recall vividly a lot of what occurred during my brief time trying to help you. I still remember taking Marty Warner’s deposition and I recall thinking what a cruel person he seemed to be. I remember the boxes of evidence you brought to my office and the story of you being dropped off in an unknown part of northeast Portland by Marty for "counseling." I remember the hearing with Judge Norblad.
I plan to order your book. I think it is a story which needs to be told. Ideally, the law is supposed to be rational, principled and just. Unfortunately, cases are decided by judges and jurors who are human beings and bring with them their own, biases, life experiences (both good and bad) and human shortcomings. To me this is the only explanation for what Judge Norblad did.
I no longer practice family law, but for many years I did, and your case stood out as one where the judge’s decision was most clearly wrong. I can’t recall another case of a court removing a nursing child from a mother, except in cases where the mother posed a clear threat to the child’s safety, such as drug addiction, etc. I try to avoid seeing things only from my client’s perspective, and to instead be objective about the facts of a case.
To me, your case was clear through: Marty was an abusive, controlling, inflexible and dogmatic father and husband...who spent his free time at home indulging his religious fanaticism and addressing issues affecting other home-schooling parents, rather than interacting with his own children. You on the other hand, were a devoted mother who clearly did 95% of the hands-on care for the children. You had some post-partum emotional issues after your last child, which Marty exploited to his advantage instead of trying to help you when you needed help.
I hope that by writing this I do not upset you or bring up issues you would rather have left alone.
I hope that you have found peace and happiness in your life and have made light of the dark, as your subtitle suggests. You are a good person.
Portland, Oregon Attorney
Mr. Benson was my attorney in February - March 1996
Gearing’s office in Portland, Oregon.)